Is Australia getting too close to Ukraine action with Wedgetail deployment?
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Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has announced that a Royal Australian Air Force E-7A Wedgetail and about 100 aviators will be deployed to Germany to provide air cover for military and humanitarian movements in and out of Ukraine.
FILE PHOTO: A No. 2 Squadron E-7A Wedgetail on a training sortie. Photo by Corporal Shannon McCarthy.
Mr Albanese said Australia was steadfast in supporting Ukraine to defend itself against Russia’s illegal and immoral invasion.
“Ensuring Ukraine can receive international assistance is a crucial part of that,” Mr Albanese said.
“The Australian Defence Force will deploy a Royal Australian Air Force E-7A Wedgetail aircraft to Germany for approximately six months from October to help protect a vital gateway of international humanitarian and military assistance to Ukraine.
“This deployment includes up to 100 crew and support personnel.
“The deployment of the E-7A Wedgetail will integrate with the efforts of our partners, including the United States, and support the multi-layered protections in place for assistance into Ukraine.
“The aircraft will provide early warning in the event of any threats outside of Ukraine against the gateway for humanitarian and military assistance.”
Prime Minister Albanese said ADF personnel or assets would not enter Ukraine throughout this deployment and the aircraft would not be involved in the current conflict in Ukraine.
“The E-7A will operate outside of Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian airspace.”
Minister for Defence Richard Marles said the deployment of the E-7A Wedgetail as an additional early warning capability would help ensure that vital support flowing to Ukraine by the international community was protected.
“Australia is committed to ensuring Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity prevails against Russia’s assault on the rules-based order.”
EDITOR’S NOTE: I’m not sure how I feel about this deployment. It’s one thing to send weapons, ammo, vehicles and equipment – which I support. But this is getting just a bit too close to direct involvement. For me, passing on field-craft expertise to front-line fighters is OK from the relative safety of England. But this is much more. This feels to me like Australia sliding closer and closer towards direct involvement in another proxy war without proper debate or consultation. Your thoughts in the comments section below…
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Ronny RAAF was never to keen on getting his aircraft close to the action as I recall – so have no fear – they will be safely out of harms way but fulfilling “vitally” important work somewhere for NATO.
The Wedgetail will probably be used the same as other NATO spy aircraft generating target information within occupied Ukraine and Russia.
The presence of these flights are usually just before an attack by Ukraine.
We are not part of NATO so we present an easier target for Russia without invoking Article 5.
As the Black sea now becomes a hot war after the grain shipments have ended we need to be very careful.
We go into American wars feeling positive but after we always feel we made a mistake. We never learn.
I can list a page full of stupid wars but almost no good ones in my lifetime of 70 years.
I am ex Army and now have a son in the infantry.
Good point Kendall – that grain deal was helpful to the Ukrainians yet they couldn’t agree to the terms (the Ukrainians) and that really has pissed off the Russians – I think ,most sober commentators can surely appreciate a deal’s a deal…yet more and more – the US influences over Ukrainian diplomacy will leave it devoid of life if this continues…Russia will be feeling pretty shocked about how influenced the world is by a fairly radical (politically) US and so the likelihood to hit a non NATO to send a message would absolutely fit the bill. Australia ought think this over again and again until we just say they are all corrupt twats and we want to recuse ourselves from this mess now and highlight the fraud from within the Ukraine and the current admin, namely ‘the big guy’. for those unfamiliar with this phrase ought demonstrate how little folks really appreciate about how badly this thing stinks. we will absolutely regret it and it won’t be a decade of waiting. A change in admin in the US will show quickly how badly interconnected layers and corporations are in on this one and ‘the big guy” being not of sound mind will be simply left alone and may even pardon his own son prior to leaving office. Interesting times indeed. China must be wondering what the hell too.
Written on iPhone…typos etc
I think that this operation need not have been given the publicity it has! Deeds not Words.
Putting aside the insidious nature of Russian propaganda, the Russians do have sound reasons for asserting dominance over Ukraine. At the end of the Cold War, they were given assurances by the west that NATO would not seek to expand to the East, and those assurances were not upheld. In addition, control over the western steppes is necessary to prevent a land invasion by NATO reaching Moscow. I am not saying that I support Russian aggression, but rather that I understand their motivation for it. The West is not an innocent victim. The consequences for Ukraine are, of course, tragic but they come as a consequence of their geographical location being between NATO and Russia.
Putin has made a point of rattling the sabre of tactical nuclear weapons but that does mean he has any real intention of using them. The whole point of having them is to deter an aggressor, and for that to work it is necessary for the aggressor to believe that the Russians are crazy enough to use them. So, his threats are an entirely predictable posture within the broader context of Mutually Assured Destruction. He is simply restating the rules of the game. He might well use them in response to a NATO advance into Russia, just as NATO would use them if Russia invaded Europe, but I can’t see him using them to defeat Ukraine, when doing so would create a clear and present danger to the survival of his regime.
Should we be involved in the Ukraine. Yes. But, let’s be clear. The Australian government does not want to talk about this, for diplomatic reasons, but our involvement is not so much about defending the sovereignty of Ukraine against Russian aggression, as it is about signalling to the CCP that military adventurism in the Western Pacific will be met with a solid wall of stiff resistance from the Western allies.
It would be a humiliation if we were to lose a Wedgetail in Europe, and a tragedy for the air crews and their families, but that would be a small price to pay compared to the catastrophe that would unfold if the military planners of the PLA mistakenly believed that seizing Taiwan could be accomplished without the consequences that would necessarily follow. From an Australian perspective, the Ukraine is a sideshow compared with the big game of strategic geopolitics in our own region, but it is a game that we have to play, whether we like it or not, so as to avoid an even greater danger.
G’day Lief.
I love your work and agree with your sentiments right up until your irrational and unwarranted fear of China.
What has Nuclear Superpower INTERNAL Politics have to do with Australia ?
Why do you want Australia involved in the Chinese Civil War?
How did Australia’s involvement in the Vietnamese War Civil go?
How did Australia’s involvement in the Afghan Civil War go?
How did Australia’s involvement in the Syrian Civil War go?
Why does Australia have this Racist sentiment of the White Saviour rescuing the Coloured people of the World from themselves?
Not our Monkey.
Not our Circus.
Not our Problem.
Yankee go Home!
Aussie stay Home!
Neutrality for Australia.
As a middle power with global interests neutrality is not a realistic strategy given Australia’s geopolitical and economic circumstances. With a small population, dependent on our allies for all but the most basic of military equipment, reliant on our ability to access global markets, and isolated at the end of a very long supply chain – it just wouldn’t work. Besides it’s the right thing morally to support Ukraine defend themselves even if it “puts a target on our back” with the Russians. It’s also in our national interest to challenge the notion that stronger states can coerce weaker ones without challenge as we may well find ourselves in that position in the not too distant future (i.e. China).
It is a very stupid idea and offers the Russians the perfect opportunity to restore Putins “Right to rule”
mentality. No doubt Albo’s basking in the glory of hero status among Europe’s leaders.
YES ,,,,,,,,,,, Albo looking for a bit of ” Look at me ” that’s about all !! How many of these Govt ” clowns ‘ Marles ‘ included have had any Military Training .. All for sending thr “BOYS” in to a conflict that WE AUSSIES should stay out of and STOP listening to God Damn it All America especially Pedo Jo !!!!!!!
Well folks, while there will be equal numbers for and against involvement in this theatre I am of the opinion that we should be doing more to look after Australians (thinking homeless here) plus being concerned about the Pacific situation as those areas are closer to home for us. We are in the process of preparing to obtain/build our own nuclear subs plus assorted other equipment to modernise our defence force to meet projected threats.
Given that our country is deeply in debt (ignore the reasons, the fact is we are millions of dollars in debt) every dollar of aid provided to the northern hemisphere is borrowed money our our grand childrens credit card.
I have no issue in supporting justified causes however in order to provide donations one must be in the financial position to be able to afford the dollars and realistically we should be spending our hard earned on our immediate needs rather than in the northern hemisphere.
Hello people, I’m an old grunt so I’ll leave the debate about if we should or should not send ADF personal and equipment directly to a European conflict to brighter minds than I. My immediate concern and question is, has this government put in place the relevant legislation to provide all the DVA support that these personal and families will require if injury or death occurs whilst being deployed in a hostile environment in Europe? This is not a peace keeping force or even a declared war zone that we have committed too. We are simply assisting our allies in surveillance of a hostile country that the rest of Europe is trying to assist. So when our service personal return, will they be classified as war veterans, peace keepers or some obscure reference to a combined allies training mission or hazardous duty? Will these servicemen be facing years long legal battles to be recognised for even a basic war service pension or just be fobbed off on workers comp?
Cheers Mark.
The French Newspaper Le Figaro reported this month the Command of the French Armed Forces has instructed its Trainers ”not to befriend Ukrainians in order to protect them from the impact of War”.
QUOTE. ” More than half of Ukrainians trained and sent to the Bakhmut Front, gave no sign of life afterwards.
We have seen cases of Post Traumatic Stress among Trainers” END QUOTE.
I’m literally with nothing further to say, Mr Mc has beaten everyone to the punch.
I note the Ed’s slow but reasonable and welcomed reassessment of thinks in this ever expanding theatre.
I do agree with everyone else to very varying degrees except Keith (with respect). I think he’s locked his thinking into a very different scenario and even the then its not the whole truth considering what the meeting with Chamberlain would have also included. but this is too controversial and rude for this forum. Essentially the English would have benefitted from the spread of a friendly German government – not unlike Russians not hating the Ukrainians (except for the Western influenced and ‘Nazi’ groups hellbent on conflict). I’m going this as I don’t want to be categorised as too cryptic or conspiratorial in my approach.
Ironically, the allies now seem to be very comfortable with the idea of siding and expanding Nazism, not hyperbole folks.
Great training for our crews…yeah and the cost is just a bigger target on our backs. How Russia hasn’t delivered more cyber troubles our way shows either old world patience or a strategy to deal with us when and where they see fit.
We are wading into the abyss. Koolaid indeed.
As an aside, I met a Ukrainian woman of about 35years, working in the local RMS (NSW Services). We got to talking and she explained she just got into Australia within a year, indicated she was now an Aussie, and had a pretty decent job earning penalty rates and working in a very affluent part of Syd.Seems to be a very easy process to just waltz into Australia with very little reason for entry in my mind as she lived no where near the conflict area. Of course she blamed Russia for her having to move but she has never been this well off and is ‘living her best life’ etc. Just giving a brief snapshot of the convo but the corruption of her country seemed to be lost on her when asking about certain rules needing explanation and her very blasé attitude rule of law and following the conditions of licensing weren’t high on her priorities which is the opposite of most Public servants. Interestingly, she will obviously be another immigrant who’s going to be using her new found entitlements to push for further involvement if we as citizens were ever given the opportunity to vote on it! I’m not against us going in and helping folks genuinely getting the short end of the stick but come on, any reasonable student of history can see this isn’t as the MSM has been pushing from day dot. I mentioned this to my new Ukrainian friend and it was the only thing she looked genuinely stumped. Remember when we got both sides of the story. How privileged we once were hey?
Another example of an Australian Government trying to ‘big note’ itself by placing Diggers in harms way. They have even tried to justify or involvement by blaming the Ukraine war as the reason for the cost of living going through the roof.
I have read the above comments. I understand the thoughts of the people who say not to supporting Ukraine through the deployment of the Wedgetail. I not only support this but wish the world would engender more of such support. My reasons are: There is much discussion should Ukraine be provided with NATO membership now. I say no because: 1. As I understand the alliance, should Ukraine be admitted now, this would almost guarantee the insertion of NATO boots on the ground. Delaying membership, the greater world will still be able to provide all material and intelligence support for Ukraine to be successfull. Going forward, this relies on the world , not just NATO, to provide the means for success. I see this “war” very much like the buildup to WW2 and the rise of Germany. Remember PM Chamberlain returning to the UK with the famous document, “peace in our time”. Less than 12 months later, Europe was plunged into a brutal war. I believe history is on the verge of repeating itself. Fortunately, Ukraine has been more successfull than Poland and France in repelling Russia. I have no doubt should Russia been successfull early, China would have invaded Taiwan. Remember our history. First Europe fell then Japan entered the war in the Pacific. If the world does not support Ukraine now, Australia will most likely be fighting a two front war all over again.
G’day Keith.
It’s nice to hear from the Orchids!
Some of my memorable times as a Grunt was being moved around by 9 and 38 Sqn.
I suggest you’re misreading the Russia situation completely in the first instance, and so negating all of your following comment.
Looking at any non-Western (Asian, Indian, African, Arab) Military and M.S.M. appraisals, or any Western non-M.S.M., they are all quite uniform and damning in their assessment of N.A.T.O.’s performance and future chances.
I can’t imagine you’re only getting your intelligence and information from CONTACT, Murdoch and the A.B.C.!
Russia is fighting for National survival, and explained its Policy regarding self-defence, stating if necessary they WILL use Nukes.
They’ve said it, and Russians don’t bluff.
So they have to win, there is no second place and luckily for the World, they are winning comfortably.
It’s horribly obvious we’re getting close to ”Fighting to the Last Ukrainian” with the FORTH wave of the A.F.U. being pressed-ganged off the streets.
Western arsenals are emptied, with any replenishment years away.
The British Army can only field 40 Challenger tanks today.
100% of German I.V.F.’s are currently u/s. (Can’t get those Boxers quick enough!)
40% of U.S. Attack Submarines are off-line waiting overdue maintenance. (When will we get our Virginia’s?)
F35 production is off until Christmas. (fingers crossed)
N.A.T.O. has just about run out of everything short of Nukes to ‘Win’ against Russia.
Plus we’re already booked in for a War with China in 18 months!
Russia meantime, while holding 20% of Ukraine, and easily containing the current Counter Offensive, has tripled most of its Military Production since February last year, and mobilised, equipped and trained 350 000 troops who are yet to be committed to Battle.
It’s obvious the Russians have all the advantages, they are fighting the War proactively, intelligently and with a elegance of Operational Arts not seen in 80 years.
Economically Russia now has the World lowest inflation, record low unemployment, Military Pensions recently went up 10 -20% and every Veteran is guaranteed a personal Carer/Social Worker!
You could only dream the D.V.A. treated us as well!
As a people Russians have never been more united, or behind their Leader and they would die before they surrender.
The Russians have to win, or N.A.T.O. will fatally escalate and then all is moot.
Of course there are the Poles. I do wonder are they mad enough to ‘Do a Ukraine’?
To date Polish troops are priority targets in Ukraine, there’s a Brigade unofficially in there already, and the Polish Mums and Dads are already complaining in their Newspapers about their dead Children and Husbands. Bad P.R.!
You can be certain the Lithuanians and Yanks are pushing Duda hard, so Belarus has deployed Tactical Nukes and Wagner to counter any such silliness!
I’ve no great interest in rehashing WW2 as written by the Victors, other than to note N.A.T.O. based its views on Russia from the thoroughly defeated but very quickly embraced Nazi’s that N.A.T.O. took as Allies, and even then, even THEN. They didn’t learn the ONLY lesson.
DON’T POKE THE BEAR!
The only good in this mission is the operational experience that our crews will get. At the end of the day this is not our problem and NATO already has the resources to do this sort of work. Australia has more strategic concerns in the Asia Pacific region.
This deployment will be some of the best training possible short of being directly involved in warfare. My guess is every wedgetail crew in the country will be chomping at the bit to get involved.
I suspect there will be plenty of safeguards in place to counter hostile Russian action.
Government has made the decision; so the job now of the ADF is to follow through; opportunity to train ALL of our Wedgetail crews in a live operational area. Suggest rotate them through as a part of the training; even small duration (3-4 week) rotations would be beneficial and make them operationally more capable now and into the future.
No Australia should not get involved in another conflict especially with the Ukraine and Russia we are not part of NATO and it could escalate into a nuclear war.
If this issue is so important, why hasn’t the USA stepped in. We have only a handful of these aircraft and the Yanks have a stack of AWACS.
What makes you think the Yanks, Germans, Brits and heaps more aren’t doing this job too?
Not debating that the others aren’t doing there bit in Europe in support of Ukraine but we are only an operator of a small number of aircraft.
The Yanks are the Big INSTIGATORS !!! Ask Pedo Jo …………
This would be the dumbest idea of an Australian Government since signing on to the U.S. Kill Fests of Vietnam, Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan.
Australia has again sipped the American Kool-aid, and now thinks the R.A.A.F. can pass live Targeting Data to Ukrainians to KILL Russians, and get magically away with it!
Dutch, British, U.S. French, Polish A.W.A.C.’s may be safe from attack because they’re N.A.T.O.
However, Australia has NO LEGAL STANDING in Europe and no Alliances to back it up, and I’m certain the Russians would LOVE the chance to down a Wedgetail and there’s NOTHING we or anyone could do about it.
From a Russian viewpoint they now have the means, motive and opportunity to slap a close U.S. Ally without any repercussions and to perhaps remind the Australian Government their acquiescence to American demands is paid in Australian blood.
You can bet the VKS is currently spinning up an R37 Missile with a ”Thank you for the Bushmasters” note attached, and if there was a Million Ruble bounty on Leopard tanks, what do you think they’ll pay for a Wedgetail?
The Yanks and N.A.T.O. won’t directly fight Russia for invading Ukraine, so what will they do about a downed R.A.A.F. plane?
Nothing.
What will Australia do about it?
Nothing.
What will Australian Aircrew die for?
Nothing.
Neutrality for Australia.
DUTY FIRST.
If they get shotdown over a Nato members Airspace, would that not be a hostile action towards a Nato member, as long as the E-7 is in Nato airspace as a “Guest” of Nato – it could be classed as an aggressive action. Also for PJ up the top there – the E-3 Sentry’s radar update rate is glacial compared to that of the Wedgetail, the whole E-3 system is outdated, and being replaced for that reason
Interesting ideas there Anonymous.
However I think you wrong regarding an R.F. shoot-down of a R.A.A.F. Wedgetail.
Who is going to start WW3 over a handful of Aussie Airmen?
No-one.
The best result we’ll get is an angry email sent to the Ruskies.
That’s the saddest part of being an Australian Serviceman, lots of us are killed for no good or demonstrative reason, and I doubt it will change soon.
Neutrality for Australia.
DUTY FIRST.
I feel that this is more of a demonstration of the aircrafts abilities in a conflict area rather than helping the ukrainian government. Don’t forget that the US is purchasing these aircraft soon, so they will be using this deployment for real world capability assessment.
You are RIGHT on there 100% ……… Our Govt is lead by YES MEN/WOMEN …………